Why does America feel it has the right?
5 years after “Mission Accomplished” I still marvel at how Americans feel it is their “Right” to interfere in the politics of other countries. And not just Iraq. A number of smaller countries have been subjected to their interference. It seems that if a politician can drum up a case of National Security, they automatically get the majority of their citizens on side.
How is this possible?
I can’t tell if they think it’s un-American to challenge their leaders or if they are simply too lazy to think through the logic. In Australia’s case it’s an easy call. We’re lazy. Generally folk can’t be bothered to think about the problem unless something like the Haneef case comes up where lawyers stir up the collective consciousness. Once we feel a politician has stepped over the line it’s very easy to get folk fired up but you need someone to capture the imagination of the Public to get the ball rolling. If it presents as bully boy tactics then you are home and hosed.
That doesn’t seem to be a selling point in the States. It seems the main objection of US folk to Bush’s War is the death toll of their own kids rather than any ethical view or sense of fair play. Fair enough that they are getting annoyed about the waste of their kids lives but I would like to see them question why they get involved in other countries affairs in the first place. Otherwise we will be going through all this devastation again in another country for another special interest group under a different President.
Once upon a time we could expect the US Media to do the thinking for their citizens but I don’t think they are filling that role any more, or at least they have been very slow to challenge the thinking in the Administration. It reminds me of the disgusting enthusiasm we saw when Maggie Thatcher decided to improve her poll standings by attacking the Argentineans in the Falklands. Some of the old blokes with the comment of “Give em a taste of the bayonet” were quite disgraceful.
The shallow British Press were just as bad. Some of their headlines were shockers. They even went as far as to give highly racist coverage of tennis matches played by Guillermo Vilas. I couldn’t believe such a thing from the allegedly sophisticated English commentators. The only saving grace here was this was an unusual event for the Brits. Although they are not without their sins in interfering in other peoples politics, they don’t seem to get involved quite so often these days.
But the US is a different ball game all together. It seems like they go out of their way to find a country they feel they can rearrange. Regardless of the fact they don’t seem to be able to get it all their own way or even close to what they want. US fuel prices would seem to indicate that going to Iraq to keep fuel affordable has been a total disaster.
I think that highlights a problem with the fuel theory. It looks more plausible that this is a little earner for Brown and Root. Despite his claims of concern for US troops, I think Dick Cheney is more than happy with the whole shooting match. Somehow I don’t see Tricky Dicky crying himself to sleep as he counts his ill gotten gains.
The coming election should be an indicator of how American thinking is going. If they sign up for more of the same with McCain then we have a long way to go before US Voters decide to demand more of their politicians. If they vote Democrat you won’t be able to tell if they demand more or have just got sick of Republicans killing their kids.
What the world really needs is for US Voters to simply ask WHY and demand a sensible answer. Counterproductive missions like The War on Terror don’t pass the sensible test.
Comments
Misguided patriotism? I genuinely don't know. On the Internet it's often difficult to question anyone with Right leanings; I often find them to be instantly defensive and belligerent as well as prone to wild exaggeration. The true moderates and those on the Left seem quirky, engaging, and generally more aware but also shy to provide in-depth analysis in case, I guess, it appears un-American. To this outsider it appears that Americans are very politicised people. However, that may come about simply as a result of the limitations of the Internet.
In terms of death tolls it's a constant wonder to me that the casualties of the WTC and Pentagon attacks are now widely passed off as 3,000 Americans dying. I think that's extraordinarily disrespectful to the non-Americans who were killed. They have simply been written out of history. Similarly, Coalition deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are ignored in favour of American deaths, as if these are the only important ones. I just don't know if it's monumental arrogance or intellectual and cultural insularity. Perhaps it's that the Right just yells more loudly.
Getting involved in the affairs of other countries derives, I think, from the erroneous belief that the American President is the leader of the free world - a sort of unelected super-president - and, quietly but no less pervasively, has some sort of divine right to act unilaterally and expect we lesser mortals to fall into line and offer up sacrifices (which don't really count). It's rather annoying but, hey, we roll over and wag on demand. To some degree other Western nations enable America to have a conceit of itself that bears little resemblance to reality. Often, Americans seem truly perplexed that many in the world consider them to be thugs, bullies and a menace to peace.
I'll PM a few Americans and ask them to have a look at your thread. They will, of necessity, be Left-leaning. I try to talk to the Right but have little success in any meaningful way.
Good question. To me, it seems as though that there is such a huge divide between those in power and the ordinary citizens. In an ideal deomcracy, the masses will always hold the whip to ensure that THEIR elected reps do the right thing by them. But it does appear that the power disconnect is so pronounced that no matter how much noise the American masses make, nothing really changes in Congress.
This suggests to me that somewhere down the line, the American Constitution has been subverted to shift the real decision making further up the bureaucracy, and farther away from the people.
It's possibly a reason why another Nixon-style impeachment is unlikely even if we know how deserving Dubya is for an impeachment.
One on one, Americans are generally considerate and thoughtful folk and pretty bright too.
I'm sure they deserve better but I guess they have to work hard for it. It's unfortunate that the rest of us have to suffer the consequences.
The Left leaning Americans that I have seen seem almost apologetic. I think this makes them less likely to lead a ground swell against the crazy stuff. The anti war folk seemed to think it was "just me" who didn't agree.
In Oz, the anti Vietnam war movement was much more self assured and ran a robust campaign that got us out of that particular mess.
You might have an excellent point on President of the Free World. It pops up every so often without a hint of embarrassment.
I look forward to further input from your US friends. They might be able to expand some of the points and enlighten us.
Borg alerted me to your post - and i've been meaning to get to it - leaving for the States in two days for my brother-in-law's wedding - and then moving to Switz in a couple months - so, i'm a bit worn out already just thinking about things - and my brain is not quite firing on all neurons right now, but i'll do the best i can to address some of your points and answer simply - otherwise, i may very well go off on tangets:) - keep in mind that lately, i have run into such RWCCN (Right-Wing Conservative Christian Nutters) as i've seen (on VOX) - what i've read has appalled and disgusted me like very few things have - in person, i try to stay as far away from RWCNs and their rhetoric as much as possible - the fact that i have some in my family (they're from Montana) doesn't change this
I can’t tell if they think it’s un-American to challenge their leaders or if they are simply too lazy to think through the logic.
the particular breed of Americans i've been coming across lately here do, indeed, seem to think it un-American to challenge their leaders - i think the epitome of being an American is that one can and should question their leaders - and not follow blindly where they follow - at least that what i was brought up to believe, as an American - question, question question - this is a Democracy - we vote for people (i did not vote for Shrub - i do not vote on the basis of whether the candidate seems accessible enough to have a beer with or whether he's in tune with "Family Values" - i consider that phrase despicable for all it stands for now) - - and if they aren't doing what we want, whether we voted for them or not - they should be roundly criticized if they aren't doing their damn best for the country - and our current one has not been making policies which are good for the US
as for thinking - well, there's clearly precious little of that going on - these people aren't thinking further than their own back yards - and they think in slogans "Iraq ,etc. bad - US good" - "Islam - evil,. Christianity - good" - "Bush - beer, Gore - boring', "Gay - bad, Straight - good" - "Immigrants - throw 'em out, it's OUR country" (completely forgetting the fact that there were no legal immigrants to America to begin the country - and they killed the "natives" off - they are technically the descendants of illegal immigrants) - whatever
It seems the main objection of US folk to Bush’s War is the death toll of their own kids rather than any ethical view or sense of fair play.
one word - draft - then we'll see how may people continue to rally behind this occupation - it should be very clear to anybody by now that this occupation has already taken a drastic toll upon the US
But the US is a different ball game all together. It seems like they go out of their way to find a country they feel they can rearrange.
certain powers-that-be just want control over the Middle East - they always have - it's all about power and oil, isn't it - AND they know they can manipulate the American people through fear, bigotry and religious inferences - personally, i don't think it's hard to manipulate humans, many are sheeple, no matter which country they're from - and once the towers happened, it was so easy, it was ridiculous - they must have been jumping up and down with glee - a perfect excuse to get the ball rolling
Once upon a time we could expect the US Media to do the thinking for their citizens but I don’t think they are filling that role any more, or at least they have been very slow to challenge the thinking in the Administration.
the mainstream media didn't want to seem "un-Patriotic" and those that did dissent were shushed up or marginalized - they're now mostly pawns of the powers-that-be
If they sign up for more of the same with McCain then we have a long way to go before US Voters decide to demand more of their politicians. If they vote Democrat you won’t be able to tell if they demand more or have just got sick of Republicans killing their kids.
if McCain gets elected, i'll be glad i've already moved out of the country and i'll do my damndest to work harder on my NZ accent - i'm voting Democrat - but if Hill is the candidate, i'll do it with gritted teeth (see: remarks on "obliterating Iraq")
What the world really needs is for US Voters to simply ask WHY and demand a sensible answer.
Many of us did - the answers weren't good enough - and are still not good enough - but we were ignored anyways and still are - i'm just trying to speak up on my blog - even though i'm now Kiwi, i'm still an American
i've been around - i've studied - i've traveled - i've lived in other countries - i'm not insulated - and insulated thinking is what many Americans excel at - this is at the root of their problem - the world comes to the US - that's why L.A. is one of my favorite cities - but, it also means that your average everyday US citizen - doesn't really get out - not good
um, i'm also not a RWCN
i don't know if this helped
:)
p.s and when I use the phrase, "Leader of the Free World", i'm usually being sardonic
It sounds as though those crazy Montana types vote for a smile and accept whatever they are dished up. If so they need a crash course in Democracy. A little focus on "for the people" might be called for. There's not much point living in a Democracy if you don't get a say in the serious stuff.
I see "Family Values" has the same suck in value it has here. The only bonus is it sounds the alarm of a con job coming.
I have never thought of the Draft as a great leveler but it could very well be. It's not going to pick up dodgers like Cheney but it may catch a few more.
It's surprising to see the US get sucked into the Mid East. The Poms learnt their lesson there many years ago. It's better to learn from other peoples mistakes.
What happened to the Press that gave us Watergate? Are they trading of historical events? Not putting in the hard yards but thinking they have it covered.
I saw a reference to Hilary's comments but I missed it at the time being out of comms range. Very disappointing that she feels she has to go feral to get the dumb vote.
When we traveled to Ireland a couple of years ago I was struck by how the Americans hung together. Just about every one else went off to party with anyone else interested but not the Yanks. They moved around as a tight knit group.
At the time I thought it may have been caused by all the anti Bush sentiment. Travel only broadens your out look if you try to see how others view the world.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Keep fighting the good fight. Many of us sympathise with thinking Americans. We just wish there were more of you.
small correction - Hill's remarks were on "obliterating" Iran, as you probably already know - and yes, must she go gung-ho-bombers-away in order to get dumb vote? - i do not respect her for that
It's better to learn from other peoples mistakes.
eh - hard to learn from other's mistakes when a country has failed to learn from many of its own
...I was struck by how the Americans hung together.
yeah, seems to often be the case - to be fair, though - i am of Indian descent - having grown up in the US, out of all the friends i've ever had, i've had two friends who are of Indian descent as well (one, i met here - neither are typical Indians - they are like me - an assimilated anomaly) - Indians in the US, tend to stick together - i never did that - i was always confused by the fact that you would move to another country and then only stick with "your kind" - whatever that means - so, i was, in effect, ostracized by other Americans of Indian descent growing up - i'm not Indian enough for many of them - it has always been totally annoying, but never a problem - i rarely cared - unless they actually get in my face about not being Indian enough - and they have - total strangers used to accost me when i lived in DC and lecture me about why i should have grown up speaking an Indian language - whatever - i speak passable Russian and a little French (and hopefully will be adding German soon)
what was my point? - oh yeah - i think, sometimes, Americans get unfairly judged - despite all this crap that makes the news and our leaders - a good number of us are multi-culturally friendly - we have to be - we grew up that way - when we travel, we often find ourselves (especially now) having to answer for everything the US has been doing lately - and some people may just want to avoid that - i've inadvertently gotten into discussions i'd rather not be in at parties - mostly, i'm not like i am at VOX - i am much less confrontational in person (however, if you do happen to say something i just can't let go of, i will speak up) - i don't want to be grilled face to face about every one of the US's policies - nor do i want to discuss them ad nauseum when i'm trying to have a good time - it has happened - no one wants to stumble into a hostile environment - our government is not making it easy for those of us living or traveling abroad
however, i do consider myself a citizen of the world and therefore, try to conduct myself that way - we mix with everyone:)
i told you i would ramble!
I can sympathise with having folk in your face over things well beyond your control. Like I'd be happy to defend Howard. Sometimes decisions are right but for the wrong reasons and carry baggage that might lead to further decisions I don't agree with.
For a while I thought of describing myself as an Earthling. I have lived in 3 different states of Oz and wouldn't regard myself as any one of them particularly. With the new fad of flag waving, I'd prefer not to claim to be an Aussie also, at least until we get a little smarter.
I thought Earthling might be the way out with the added benefit of not having a particular religion attached as well.
When we traveled to Ireland we enjoyed getting into the local scene. It would have been a tragedy to seek out Aussies rather than enjoy the difference. Good luck with the German. Sounds like you have made the most of your options.